Through the ADC mentorship program, industry veteran Stefan Schönefeld mentored Deivids Hvostovs as he built his plugin brand and launched his first release. We chat about breaking into audio, AI (of course), and why they’re optimistic about the industry.
Deivids, as the mentee, how did you first hear about the ADC mentorship?
Deivids: I think it came up randomly on a social media timeline, like LinkedIn. I clicked through, thought it looked interesting and then applied. I learned about ADC originally through my university lecturer. He introduced me to audio plugins in general (developing them). He said, "One day, I'd love to take you guys to ADC." He had given a talk there years and years ago.
Deivids: Finding out about the mentorship program was just a bit of random whim. I thought, "Well, I'm out of university and just starting to work on my own projects, it could be worthwhile."
When you started the mentorship, did you already have an audio plugin? Were you in the middle of making one?
Deivids: I already had the idea for the brand and how I wanted the plugins to look and feel and interact. It was just a case of actually getting on with it and having the self-belief to just do it.
Stefan, I only did a minimal amount of stalking — you work at Native Instruments?
Stefan: Specifically Native Instruments Langenfeld, which was called Brainworx audio before. Part of it is a plugin line, so I'm working in that part of the company.
Yeah, I saw your name credited on some of the Brainworx stuff. Have you been there a while?
Stefan: I started during my studies in like 2006 as one of the first plugin developers there. In 2011, I did two years of other work in the media industry, in film and TV production, and then returned to Brainworx. Went through different stages, software engineering mostly and now management, managing the software teams.
How many times did you meet? Or were you guys just emailing back and forth?
Deivids: I think we had Zoom meetings three or four times, but in between I had the opportunity to send stuff across to Stefan and he'd reply over email and then eventually would meet to go over things in a bit more detail.
Deivids, what were you hoping to get out of the mentorship? Did you specifically want someone on the technical side?
Deivids: Truthfully, on a certain level you want someone there behind you that gives you a bit more self-belief and guidance. You are very much in the mist and unknown when doing anything just by yourself. So having someone where I can bounce ideas off of — whether that's technical or more general — that was really the goal.
Deivids: It also helped that Stefan has so much technical knowledge. I could talk with him through an idea, create it, and then send him an update, have him reflect on it or try it out, see if it's right or wrong and then I can quickly iterate on it.
Deivids: I launched my first plugin a few months ago and I kind of realized, "Oh, people actually need to care about it. You need to get the word out." Over the past two months, my girlfriend (she's been helping out) and I have been rethinking social media strategy and pushing out the product, and brand more importantly, so people see it.
Deivids: It was quite frightening. But it's an important step. You've made something cool, you have to tell people to care about it and why they should care.
What kind of plugin is it?
Deivids: It's just a simple tremolo, but it's got an additional layer where you can wave shape, so it's particularly nice for any kind of strings or anything you'd chuck a tremolo onto to add more depth. But I think the goal with the first plugin more than anything was to prove to myself that I can do it.
Yeah, you did the very smart thing of launching something small and doable. This is the advice that's given to everybody.
Stefan, what made you reach out as a mentor?
Stefan: This was my third year. I was just interested to see what people are interested in and how I could maybe help them. I found that I can learn from them as much as they can learn from me if it's going well.
What have you learned from them?
Stefan: Especially these days, where hiring is not as frequent, you don't really get to speak to a lot of young developers or people that come into the industry. And that's really interesting — to see what their approach is.
How were the prior years? I guess you got enough out of it to keep doing it?
Stefan: You never know exactly how much you help. I can only speak for myself. But it was different types of people with different backgrounds, for example from game audio or other industries that wanted to get some tips or wanted to enter the audio field. I try to see what resonates, things that I could help them with to get started, starting from understanding what they actually want to do, and then with my background, how I can help them.
So, things went so right with this mentorship that one of you actually emailed the ADC team suggesting they feature you, is that true?
Deivids: I mentioned the idea to Stefan to see what he thought and it seemed like a good call to make! Because it's beneficial to everyone. It's been a really interesting experience. It started out with a small idea from me and then over the course of last year and checking in with Stefan it worked out very nicely, I built the plugin, launched the brand. It might be something that ADC would want to spotlight.
Definitely! It sounds like you have a knack for marketing, then. Which is good, because it's your life as a solo plugin dev from now on! [laughs]
Deivids: Pretty much, yeah!
Stefan, what did you feel like your role was with Deivids? Had you started a business before? Was that aspect interesting to you?
Stefan: No I haven't. I didn't have that experience the two prior years [with ADC mentorships] — someone who tries to establish a new brand. I was just listening first, to see what kind of help I could offer. With the Plugin Alliance brands, we've seen quite a bunch of products from different companies that are also external to us — not made by ourselves and we do all the quality assurance in-house. I've been connected to this for several years, so I've tried to help a bit with feedback. It was interesting to see and hear about Deivids' process.
Deivids: You asked a lot of questions for yourself throughout the process and just having someone like Stefan who has the industry knowledge and experience — is worth so much because it validates what you are doing and makes it feel like, "Oh, I'm not going absolutely crazy, I'm doing something worthwhile.".
Programming-wise did you have a lot of experience before this, Deivids? Or was this the first big project?
Deivids: Basically, my first big project. At University, I made a plugin from start to finish. By no means was it on a kind of commercial-ready level. It was good enough on an academic level. I always had this nagging thing of, "Well, if you already made the thing, how many more steps is it to get it out there commercially?"
What's the answer to that question?
Deivids: In some aspects there's not as many as you'd think. But at the same time it's a lot because you get caught up in so many little details. I need a website. I need a backend. I need licensing. I need a support system. And then you need marketing. As you go through the process, more and more trees spring up for you to deal with.
But that's also a part of the process that I really enjoyed. You face so many challenges and you have to be able to quickly adapt and learn — it's quite good fun! Maybe that's a bit crazy to say.
Were there some other resources that were important to you during the learning process?
Deivids: I've always been huge on YouTube tutorials. It's my go-to for anything. If there's anything I want to find out in life, YouTube is the first place I go. There's one guy on YouTube that's posting tutorials for JUCE who just started doing them again, Viator DSP.
Stefan, did you feel like you got to live vicariously through this experience at all?
Stefan: Yeah, he seems to like challenges, which is a good thing to start with. I was actually astonished how you seem to have a vision where to go and what's important and what to focus on. As a manager, I deal with a lot of "people" topics — different characters and approaches, what makes something efficient. It's always interesting to me when someone is really self-driven to do something.
It's a different time from when I started. The market wasn't at all as saturated as it is nowadays. It's good to know that there are still people starting plugin businesses that seem to make sense and have a positive future.
Do you feel like the bar has lowered more over the last decade or so re: technology being more accessible to make plugins?
Stefan: Definitely more accessible. There's also more choice. There's a million ways to get started. And yeah, it can probably be overwhelming quite fast. Many tend to choose JUCE to get started, which is a good environment to be in.
Deivids, is your current plan to invest into your business and release more products?
Deivids: I'm currently developing the second plugin [Editor's note: Now released!]. My university dissertation project was about playful design. I used the OP1 by Teenage Engineering and found it fascinating. So I wanted to really look at how to integrate playful but meaningful design into hardware and software and things that we use creatively.
Stefan, will you keep mentoring?
Stefan: Definitely. It's not a lot of time you spend. You check in after like four or six weeks have passed and you see some kind of development and things you can follow up on.
I did two mentorships this year because there's usually more mentees than mentors. I would definitely do that again and keep in contact with anyone that still wants to. It's beneficial for both sides. This whole music industry still feels like a family or a small worldwide circle that meets up occasionally at ADC (or virtually).
Deivids, was there a particular moment or topic where you felt thankful to have Stefan as someone you could rely on?
Deivids: There were many moments! Being able to send stuff off for him to check and getting feedback was massively beneficial. Also being able to talk about industry prospects. Being a junior in the space is a daunting thing, particularly with AI. Being able to talk to someone within the industry and feeling somewhat grounded is worth a lot.
What the ADC has done with the mentorship program is very special because going into any programming field right now as a junior is terrifying. You have basically no certainty into what you're going into. You don't know what the future looks like. You know, it's hard enough to find work and be able to sustain. So having something like this, where you get the opportunity to not only to talk to people within the industry, but almost collaborate is worth so much. And I can only be thankful for the opportunity.
What the ADC has done with the mentorship program is very special because going into any programming field right now as a junior is terrifying.
Stefan, was there a moment that you felt sure "Oh, I'm being useful here?"
Stefan: Yes, on the technical side. It feels natural for me to see a plugin, look at the contents, see what's inside, see if everything is right. That felt like I could give a little tip here or there. But to be honest there was a lot right from the start.
With other mentees, sometimes people are looking for a job, to be hired or get some more insight into the industry. There it's more about giving a few company names or some insight that will be helpful for them.
Deivids, can you imagine you yourself becoming the mentor someday?
Deivids: It would be really cool. Given how I'm technically entering the space, I think it would be good insight for people. I'd be so up for it. I've got my own journey to kind of conquer first and then hopefully be able to help people in the future!
So what about AI use? Deivids, are you using agents or completion or nothing?
Deivids: Just using a chat. When I watched ADC online, it seemed to me that devs are very afraid of AI. And I completely understand. I think the one benefit I have is that I'm coming from a position where I have a lot of maneuverability in the way that I approach things. And AI is great for that because I can iterate very quickly and get through tasks and self-teach very effectively. It's not about giving it a prompt and hoping for the best.
Deivids: Stefan and I had a lot of conversations about it because it is there. And a lot of the time it feels kind of like an "eat or be eaten" situation because it'll only get better and better, which is terrifying, but also exciting — particularly in the position of a software developer.
Stefan, what is your feeling re: AI?
Stefan: I see people without a technical background basically producing software using C++, which is really astounding. So the barrier has definitely lowered again with that technology.
Do either of you have questions you'd like to ask?
Deivids: I've got a question. I wanted to ask both of you what you are excited about or expecting of the future within the industry?
Stefan: I'll go first. I'm kind of optimistic. There are those trends like Web DAWs bringing in new people that come from the non-producer field. I would love to see all this connect together so that it doesn't matter whether you are on a cheap laptop or mobile, you can bring your ideas to life in no time and end up in Cubase or ProTools or Logic in a bigger setup at some point. And I think the technology is there.
I'm excited that everything's more accessible than ever. People who have "out there" ideas or who aren't sure if something's going to have a big audience — it's easier than ever for them to try their thing. So I'm excited for creativity to have a comeback. There's a whole generation of tools that have yet to come and fill in and support new ways of making music (for example, getting away from the linear DAW thing a little bit more).
What about you?
Deivids: I'm a little bit conflicted in some aspects. AI has become this overpowering thing and it's a race to the bottom of who's going to make the best AI thing first. But actually, I don't think many people who are producing music want something which takes the whole process away from them. I think people want it to be simplified, more accessible, but still be able to put their own kind of life and soul into the things that they make.
Stefan: Even those AI tools like Suno are heading towards a more DAW-like experience where you can do traditional stuff. There probably need to be a couple rules established as a society. What's art or creativity. But I hope it's all coming together and people can just choose freely.
I was initially going to say something snide about AI slop plugins but I actually think they are a good sign. It's just evidence the bar has been lowered. Until recently, the only people able to make a plugin were financially stable, living with their parents or middle-aged — someone able to spend years investing into a pretty complex skill set.
Stefan: I agree. And back then, it didn't mean you had the best concept of a plugin, just that you knew the technology and have the money.
Deivids: AI slop can excite me because it means people are trying. If making your first AI slop plugin is what lights the fire in someone to be like, "Let me explore this a bit more and see if I can make something special," I think that's great. It's like a gateway drug.
Stefan and Deivids were interviewed by Sudara from melatonin.dev.
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